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	<title>Comments on: Can we share the road in London?</title>
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	<link>http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/</link>
	<description>Happily cycling in London</description>
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		<title>By: Andreas</title>
		<link>http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/comment-page-1/#comment-1587</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 10:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/#comment-1587</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;I&#039;m going to close the comments because some of the attacks seem to be directed at individuals rather than this debate. Thanks everyone for contributing, it was very interesting to read different opinions on this, I think it definitely encouraged me to be more courteous to pedestrians now I realise some of the issues and hopefully it helped some people realise some of the difficulties of being a cyclist.&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>I&#8217;m going to close the comments because some of the attacks seem to be directed at individuals rather than this debate. Thanks everyone for contributing, it was very interesting to read different opinions on this, I think it definitely encouraged me to be more courteous to pedestrians now I realise some of the issues and hopefully it helped some people realise some of the difficulties of being a cyclist.</b></p>
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		<title>By: Andrew McDermott</title>
		<link>http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/comment-page-1/#comment-1580</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew McDermott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/#comment-1580</guid>
		<description>If I can make the point that as &#039;ajjmcd&#039; on Twitter, I write arbitrary comments about many things, usually directed to friends, without any intention to incite a reaction from Twitter observers. I do not sanction violence towards any individual, and the comment listed above was posted in the context of &#039;a cyclist&#039; riding without due care and consideration towards others, whether they be pedestrians or road users. 

I passed a Cycling Proficiency Test when I was ten years old, which provided me with an awareness of all road users, and in principle, made me aware of the risks I might encounter whilst cycling on the road. During the intervening thirty years I have continued to cycle regularly, and during the six years I lived in London, it was my primary mode of transport. I quickly became aware of how quickly I could travel from Putney to Soho, relative to the pace of motor cars and public transport, but equally I became aware of how lackadaisical other road users were towards me. Each occasion I was obstructed by a pedestrian, taxi, car, bus, cyclist(!), my life was put at risk. But on each occasion the awareness I had for what was going on in front of me, or behind me, etc., meant that I avoided serious mishap. 

I have no patience for nonchalant cyclists who ride without a similar awareness of what goes on around them, and proceed aggressively, at a pace that frequently puts others at risk. It is irrelevant, in my experience, whether another road user obstructs my path unknowingly; if I have seen them before they see me, it is my obligation to be evasive. 

In 1995 a cyclist was killed in Hyde Park, when they collided with a rollerblader. No other vehicles, or pedestrians, were involved. I do not recall if either party was at fault, or if one saw the other coming before the collision. But one survived, the other died. Would you wish to be the survivor, wondering what the outcome might have been if you were going slower? Looked up earlier? Taken evasive action earlier?

My observation via Twitter was marked by the frustration of cyclists who make effort to protect themselves, but disregard the safety of others. It does not presume that all cyclists are alike, nor that all cyclists should bare the brunt of criticism brought upon a minority of cyclists. 

My apologies to those who took offence from the published Tweet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I can make the point that as &#8216;ajjmcd&#8217; on Twitter, I write arbitrary comments about many things, usually directed to friends, without any intention to incite a reaction from Twitter observers. I do not sanction violence towards any individual, and the comment listed above was posted in the context of &#8216;a cyclist&#8217; riding without due care and consideration towards others, whether they be pedestrians or road users. </p>
<p>I passed a Cycling Proficiency Test when I was ten years old, which provided me with an awareness of all road users, and in principle, made me aware of the risks I might encounter whilst cycling on the road. During the intervening thirty years I have continued to cycle regularly, and during the six years I lived in London, it was my primary mode of transport. I quickly became aware of how quickly I could travel from Putney to Soho, relative to the pace of motor cars and public transport, but equally I became aware of how lackadaisical other road users were towards me. Each occasion I was obstructed by a pedestrian, taxi, car, bus, cyclist(!), my life was put at risk. But on each occasion the awareness I had for what was going on in front of me, or behind me, etc., meant that I avoided serious mishap. </p>
<p>I have no patience for nonchalant cyclists who ride without a similar awareness of what goes on around them, and proceed aggressively, at a pace that frequently puts others at risk. It is irrelevant, in my experience, whether another road user obstructs my path unknowingly; if I have seen them before they see me, it is my obligation to be evasive. </p>
<p>In 1995 a cyclist was killed in Hyde Park, when they collided with a rollerblader. No other vehicles, or pedestrians, were involved. I do not recall if either party was at fault, or if one saw the other coming before the collision. But one survived, the other died. Would you wish to be the survivor, wondering what the outcome might have been if you were going slower? Looked up earlier? Taken evasive action earlier?</p>
<p>My observation via Twitter was marked by the frustration of cyclists who make effort to protect themselves, but disregard the safety of others. It does not presume that all cyclists are alike, nor that all cyclists should bare the brunt of criticism brought upon a minority of cyclists. </p>
<p>My apologies to those who took offence from the published Tweet.</p>
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		<title>By: Andreas</title>
		<link>http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/comment-page-1/#comment-1550</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/#comment-1550</guid>
		<description>@Phil - I&#039;m trying to decide whether I share the whole &quot;self righteous attitude&quot; of being a cyclist - hopefully I don&#039;t, I think it will put people off!

@gotofritz - you are right I didn&#039;t choose my words very carefully there! Apologies. I&#039;ll be a bit more thoughtful before I hit the tweet button in future. Also: &quot;than be crushed as the lights turn green&quot; - agreed, there is more danger to a cyclist if they wait for the lights to turn green and then there is a huge rush of cars.  Would definitely like to see a light that turns green for cyclists first. It&#039;s not even like you can usually get into the box infront of cars as they often pull up onto it. 

@tacitus &quot;most motorists seem quite courteous&quot; - In general I can agree with that. Any incidents I have are rare - though I avoid at all costs going down massive A roads. 

@nicomonkeyboy &quot;Motorcyclists get all the disadvantages of motoring – tax, insurance, a number plate to identify any wrongdoing and a licence to lose in the event of any wrongdoing.&quot; - I would say loosing your life is a pretty big disadvantage to cycling! I think the situation is definitely much worse for motorists than it has ever been with rising cost of fuel and so on. You should definitely not move to cities such as Copenhagen where they ask themselves how can we make life hell for motorists? Unfortunately all the signs point to motoring being unsustainable so hopefully by the time you may choose to join us by bike the facilities will be much improved for a safer ride. 

@Mulene and @MarkA - keep it respectful!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Phil &#8211; I&#8217;m trying to decide whether I share the whole &#8220;self righteous attitude&#8221; of being a cyclist &#8211; hopefully I don&#8217;t, I think it will put people off!</p>
<p>@gotofritz &#8211; you are right I didn&#8217;t choose my words very carefully there! Apologies. I&#8217;ll be a bit more thoughtful before I hit the tweet button in future. Also: &#8220;than be crushed as the lights turn green&#8221; &#8211; agreed, there is more danger to a cyclist if they wait for the lights to turn green and then there is a huge rush of cars.  Would definitely like to see a light that turns green for cyclists first. It&#8217;s not even like you can usually get into the box infront of cars as they often pull up onto it. </p>
<p>@tacitus &#8220;most motorists seem quite courteous&#8221; &#8211; In general I can agree with that. Any incidents I have are rare &#8211; though I avoid at all costs going down massive A roads. </p>
<p>@nicomonkeyboy &#8220;Motorcyclists get all the disadvantages of motoring – tax, insurance, a number plate to identify any wrongdoing and a licence to lose in the event of any wrongdoing.&#8221; &#8211; I would say loosing your life is a pretty big disadvantage to cycling! I think the situation is definitely much worse for motorists than it has ever been with rising cost of fuel and so on. You should definitely not move to cities such as Copenhagen where they ask themselves how can we make life hell for motorists? Unfortunately all the signs point to motoring being unsustainable so hopefully by the time you may choose to join us by bike the facilities will be much improved for a safer ride. </p>
<p>@Mulene and @MarkA &#8211; keep it respectful!</p>
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		<title>By: Mulene</title>
		<link>http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/comment-page-1/#comment-1549</link>
		<dc:creator>Mulene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/#comment-1549</guid>
		<description>@MarkA Oh dear did you take your ball home already?  Try properly reading my posts on the subject instead of picking one line out of one post and attempting to create an eco warrior attack without looking at all the issues I have brought up.

I certainly don&#039;t see this as &quot;heated&quot; at all.  You do seem quite upset though and again you chose one line out of one post and tweeted that I&#039;d admitted to speeding but omitted to point out that I&#039;d said it was once on a dual carriage way to undertake someone who was breaking the rules of the road anyway!

I&#039;m sorry you feel the need to take your ball home and are so upset by my opinions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MarkA Oh dear did you take your ball home already?  Try properly reading my posts on the subject instead of picking one line out of one post and attempting to create an eco warrior attack without looking at all the issues I have brought up.</p>
<p>I certainly don&#8217;t see this as &#8220;heated&#8221; at all.  You do seem quite upset though and again you chose one line out of one post and tweeted that I&#8217;d admitted to speeding but omitted to point out that I&#8217;d said it was once on a dual carriage way to undertake someone who was breaking the rules of the road anyway!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry you feel the need to take your ball home and are so upset by my opinions.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkA</title>
		<link>http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/comment-page-1/#comment-1548</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/#comment-1548</guid>
		<description>@Mulene &#039;eco warrior bashing&#039; &#039;Oh my, heavens your bike it isn’t purely green&#039; &#039;Oh my you are not completely and utterly green!&#039;

Oh dear, has it come to this so soon? Pity.

You are clearly enjoying the heat of debate more than the rationale of discourse - I have neither the patience or time to indulge you.  I&#039;m sure you didn&#039;t have the time or temerity to even read the post I mentioned about the REAL issues concerning our roads, but I&#039;ll post it here again in the hope you&#039;ll get it, one day.  In the mean time, do carry on - I&#039;m sure you&#039;re having a whale of a time.
http://ibikelondon.blogspot.com/2009/10/children-in-deprived-areas-at-greater.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mulene &#8216;eco warrior bashing&#8217; &#8216;Oh my, heavens your bike it isn’t purely green&#8217; &#8216;Oh my you are not completely and utterly green!&#8217;</p>
<p>Oh dear, has it come to this so soon? Pity.</p>
<p>You are clearly enjoying the heat of debate more than the rationale of discourse &#8211; I have neither the patience or time to indulge you.  I&#8217;m sure you didn&#8217;t have the time or temerity to even read the post I mentioned about the REAL issues concerning our roads, but I&#8217;ll post it here again in the hope you&#8217;ll get it, one day.  In the mean time, do carry on &#8211; I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re having a whale of a time.<br />
<a href="http://ibikelondon.blogspot.com/2009/10/children-in-deprived-areas-at-greater.html" rel="nofollow">http://ibikelondon.blogspot.com/2009/10/children-in-deprived-areas-at-greater.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mulene</title>
		<link>http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/comment-page-1/#comment-1547</link>
		<dc:creator>Mulene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/#comment-1547</guid>
		<description>@Phil thanks for clarification and apologies I did think either a) Sarcasm on your part or b) classic forum trollism ;)

Well at least you are honest and you acknowledge the fact it isn&#039;t a helpful view :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Phil thanks for clarification and apologies I did think either a) Sarcasm on your part or b) classic forum trollism <img src='http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Well at least you are honest and you acknowledge the fact it isn&#8217;t a helpful view <img src='http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Mulene</title>
		<link>http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/comment-page-1/#comment-1546</link>
		<dc:creator>Mulene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:01:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/#comment-1546</guid>
		<description>@MarkA what exactly has that got to do with anything? *sigh*

Everything when other road users are being accused of being blind to cyclists point of view.

Did you miss the inverted comma&#039;s around the word &quot;green&quot; which pretty much speak for themselves and didn&#039;t require an eco warrior bashing.

Every single item that is manufactured requires the use of something to make it - be it cows farting power,  plastic or metal work (your bike takes metal work to make! Oh and Electricity! Oh and then it gets transported in a big fat Lorry to the shop where it is sold - or in a lorry to be delivered to you when you buy it online. Oh my, heavens your bike it isn&#039;t purely green! You fart as you cycle I&#039;m sure - methane contribues to greenhouse gasses! Oh my you are not completely and utterly green! Less damaging than some other creatures on the planet but not green) *eyeroll*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MarkA what exactly has that got to do with anything? *sigh*</p>
<p>Everything when other road users are being accused of being blind to cyclists point of view.</p>
<p>Did you miss the inverted comma&#8217;s around the word &#8220;green&#8221; which pretty much speak for themselves and didn&#8217;t require an eco warrior bashing.</p>
<p>Every single item that is manufactured requires the use of something to make it &#8211; be it cows farting power,  plastic or metal work (your bike takes metal work to make! Oh and Electricity! Oh and then it gets transported in a big fat Lorry to the shop where it is sold &#8211; or in a lorry to be delivered to you when you buy it online. Oh my, heavens your bike it isn&#8217;t purely green! You fart as you cycle I&#8217;m sure &#8211; methane contribues to greenhouse gasses! Oh my you are not completely and utterly green! Less damaging than some other creatures on the planet but not green) *eyeroll*</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/comment-page-1/#comment-1545</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/#comment-1545</guid>
		<description>@Mulene - I do think like that, honestly I do. I very often feel very strong animosity towards drivers. It’s not helpful, but it is true. 

It’s good old tribalism. If you’re in my tribe, i.e. a cyclist, then I empathise and identify with you. I treat you with respect and compassion. I’ve had arguments with drivers on behalf of other cyclists and had the same courtesy extended to me. If you’re not in my tribe then you’re a threat, human nature means I treat you with fear, intolerance and disdain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mulene &#8211; I do think like that, honestly I do. I very often feel very strong animosity towards drivers. It’s not helpful, but it is true. </p>
<p>It’s good old tribalism. If you’re in my tribe, i.e. a cyclist, then I empathise and identify with you. I treat you with respect and compassion. I’ve had arguments with drivers on behalf of other cyclists and had the same courtesy extended to me. If you’re not in my tribe then you’re a threat, human nature means I treat you with fear, intolerance and disdain.</p>
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		<title>By: Mulene</title>
		<link>http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/comment-page-1/#comment-1544</link>
		<dc:creator>Mulene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/#comment-1544</guid>
		<description>@gotofritz LOL I&#039;m exactly the same today as yesterday - the difference here is that there are more than 140 characters to express onesself in so one has more space to clarify what one means :) I&#039;m not sure what &quot;Other niceties&quot; you are referring to.  Maybe my #unseenprequels tweets or my references to knitting and yarn tasting, or the brownies I baked and brought into my office?

 &quot;Carefully&quot; jumping a red light - thats an interesting concept :P &quot;yes occifer I was carefully jumping that red light, the one that says &quot;Danger! do not go&quot; wonder if that would wash for other road users?

It bothers us because its the rules of the road, and road users of all colours should adhere to the rules of the road.  There are some lights that do the turning green for cyclists first (not suprisingly to me on a route that is very cyclist bound - the bottom of Priory Lane for instance where there is heavy cycle traffic).

There are also lights that are badly designed for cars with poorly placed yellow boxes and causing cars to be unable to go when the light is green (the turning just before Hammersmith Bridge where St Paul&#039;s school is as an example).

I still think it a bit rich that SOME regular cyclists are saying other road users have no right to use the road.  It&#039;s exactly the same as SOME car drivers saying cyclists should be banned from the road.  Neither are helpful or representative of the majority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@gotofritz LOL I&#8217;m exactly the same today as yesterday &#8211; the difference here is that there are more than 140 characters to express onesself in so one has more space to clarify what one means <img src='http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I&#8217;m not sure what &#8220;Other niceties&#8221; you are referring to.  Maybe my #unseenprequels tweets or my references to knitting and yarn tasting, or the brownies I baked and brought into my office?</p>
<p> &#8220;Carefully&#8221; jumping a red light &#8211; thats an interesting concept <img src='http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' />  &#8220;yes occifer I was carefully jumping that red light, the one that says &#8220;Danger! do not go&#8221; wonder if that would wash for other road users?</p>
<p>It bothers us because its the rules of the road, and road users of all colours should adhere to the rules of the road.  There are some lights that do the turning green for cyclists first (not suprisingly to me on a route that is very cyclist bound &#8211; the bottom of Priory Lane for instance where there is heavy cycle traffic).</p>
<p>There are also lights that are badly designed for cars with poorly placed yellow boxes and causing cars to be unable to go when the light is green (the turning just before Hammersmith Bridge where St Paul&#8217;s school is as an example).</p>
<p>I still think it a bit rich that SOME regular cyclists are saying other road users have no right to use the road.  It&#8217;s exactly the same as SOME car drivers saying cyclists should be banned from the road.  Neither are helpful or representative of the majority.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkA</title>
		<link>http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/comment-page-1/#comment-1543</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:45:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/news/can-we-share-the-road-in-london/#comment-1543</guid>
		<description>@Mulene  &quot;So now you have my credentials as someone who uses both sides of the fence what are yours?&quot;  *sigh*

I think you&#039;ll find that nearly all cyclists use both sides of the fence - I drive a car, I ride a bike, I walk, I regularly use public transport (trains, tube and buses), I don&#039;t have a single point on my driver&#039;s license, have taken my cycling proficiency, and am a passionate advocate of urban cycling - what exactly has that got to do with anything?

The reason, I think, that I am perhaps slightly under the collar about your &#039;what about all the poor old people on the pavement knocked down by bicycles, we should license and restrain them all&#039; argument is because it is, quite frankly, a non-issue.  Last year ONE pedestrian was killed by a cyclist, and tragic  of course though this is, it&#039;s a drop in the ocean compared to the volume of pedestrians killed by cars on the pavement (yes, cars not even in the road) - where is your sense of indignity about this?  Read my post here: http://ibikelondon.blogspot.com/2009/10/children-in-deprived-areas-at-greater.html  and perhaps you&#039;ll get my point.

Yes of course adult cyclists shouldn&#039;t ride on the pavement, that&#039;s why it&#039;s the law, but really, is all this effort worth it just to bash a small minority when outside your own front door another car just killed a person?  Bang! There goes one... Bang! And another... where is your sense of indignity about that?

Let&#039;s all keep a sense of perspective here and remember what the REAL issues are.

P.S  I beg to differ that you drive a &#039;green car&#039; - promoting cars as green is really just a marketing exercise done very well by automobile manufacturers - I believe that you drive a less-damaging car and for that you are to be congratulated.  But green?  It still uses fossil fuels to get around doesn&#039;t it?  It&#039;s still made of massive quantities of plastic and steel, right?  Still makes toxic emissions? Contributes to noise pollution? Causes congestion in our cities?  :o)  Less damaging, yes.  Green?  No.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mulene  &#8220;So now you have my credentials as someone who uses both sides of the fence what are yours?&#8221;  *sigh*</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;ll find that nearly all cyclists use both sides of the fence &#8211; I drive a car, I ride a bike, I walk, I regularly use public transport (trains, tube and buses), I don&#8217;t have a single point on my driver&#8217;s license, have taken my cycling proficiency, and am a passionate advocate of urban cycling &#8211; what exactly has that got to do with anything?</p>
<p>The reason, I think, that I am perhaps slightly under the collar about your &#8216;what about all the poor old people on the pavement knocked down by bicycles, we should license and restrain them all&#8217; argument is because it is, quite frankly, a non-issue.  Last year ONE pedestrian was killed by a cyclist, and tragic  of course though this is, it&#8217;s a drop in the ocean compared to the volume of pedestrians killed by cars on the pavement (yes, cars not even in the road) &#8211; where is your sense of indignity about this?  Read my post here: <a href="http://ibikelondon.blogspot.com/2009/10/children-in-deprived-areas-at-greater.html" rel="nofollow">http://ibikelondon.blogspot.com/2009/10/children-in-deprived-areas-at-greater.html</a>  and perhaps you&#8217;ll get my point.</p>
<p>Yes of course adult cyclists shouldn&#8217;t ride on the pavement, that&#8217;s why it&#8217;s the law, but really, is all this effort worth it just to bash a small minority when outside your own front door another car just killed a person?  Bang! There goes one&#8230; Bang! And another&#8230; where is your sense of indignity about that?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s all keep a sense of perspective here and remember what the REAL issues are.</p>
<p>P.S  I beg to differ that you drive a &#8216;green car&#8217; &#8211; promoting cars as green is really just a marketing exercise done very well by automobile manufacturers &#8211; I believe that you drive a less-damaging car and for that you are to be congratulated.  But green?  It still uses fossil fuels to get around doesn&#8217;t it?  It&#8217;s still made of massive quantities of plastic and steel, right?  Still makes toxic emissions? Contributes to noise pollution? Causes congestion in our cities?  <img src='http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif' alt=':o' class='wp-smiley' /> )  Less damaging, yes.  Green?  No.</p>
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