In this second of our London Cyclist week of polls I’m heading to a very hot topic of the moment. There was recently news about Westminster council raising the fines for cyclists to £100. Any cyclist therefore caught skipping red lights, on pavements or ignoring one way signs would receive a fairly harsh fine of £100. (This used to be £30).
The post back then raised a lot of debate with a total of 37 comments left.
Those for the harsher fines: Will argue that cyclists are not above the law and they are governed by the highway code in the same way as any motorist. The harsher fine may help to discourage those that keep flouting the laws. The cyclists for the higher fines will talk about how those that do skip red lights are painting a less positive picture of cycling and likely to cause less people to want to start cycling. Many people will also talk about the anger people seem to express at pavement cycling and the dangers that poses for pedestrians.
Those against the harsher fines: Will argue that the road system in the UK was designed around cars and not bikes. This often leaves cyclists in less than safe positions and the occasional bit of red light skipping actually helps to prevent danger. Whilst they don’t encourage flouting all the laws they acknowledge a bit of rule bending is necessary to stay safe. They will point out that the number of accidents caused by cyclists is extremely low and deaths even lower to none existent. The harsher fines will only serve to discourage new cyclists to join as they keep hearing stories about people receiving big fines. They may also argue that a harsh fine is not the correct way to discourage people and instead better cycling facilities should be built.
Do you think cyclists should receive harsher fines for breaking the rules?
Also don’t forget to vote in yesterdays poll on the London Cycle Hire scheme which is just 2 people short of 100!
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Point taken Murray in re: motor vehicle code. For the most part though I think motorists stop for red lights and stop signs. And stay in their lanes. And stay on the correct side of the road.
As a cyclist I still think we need to show some respect to the larger vehicle. In this case “better alive than in the hospital.”
Motorists can’t seem to accept the share the road principle which I’m sure was invented by cyclists and runners. Motorists want to be able to maintain a certain speed which is usually faster than the latter who cause them to have to slow down, or try to pass (on curves and double lines in the case of two lane roads). Even if a lone cyclist is totally over on the right, most motorists try to give some distance when going around. This usually puts them in the oncoming traffic lane. Not good.
So let the animosity on both sides continue!!
Maybe there is no solution to this.
Sympathy from the likes of you we don’t really need especially if you think its cyclist who need the compulsory training !
You have 40 years as a biker a bunch I normally have some respect for on the roads and who are generally far safer and considerate than pretty much all other road users.
I’ve been cycling on the roads for only a few years less than that and have seen the bullying, distracting and dangerous behaviour detoriate on London roads that even with training cyclists are far more at risks than ever before.
Until the numbers of cyclist getting killed goes up I can see little change in legislation as the general consensus is we are an expendable minority.
Sorry to hear of the death of your young friends far too many are killed on our roads and without a huge shoft in behavoiur I’m afraid it will continue.
Nobody is expendable Charles and you have misunderstood what I wrote.I am against legislation which is why I used the word VOLUNTARY.And you call me Thicko,HUH!!! Anyway,all differences aside,I wish you well and safe in your travels.
Perhaps you or some other contributor can tell me if the old cycling proficiency scheme is still available? It was always heavily promoted years ago and this is the type of thing I am suggesting.I know you can’t do much to stop the aggressive,bullying style of driving to which you refer but at least you can teach people about defensive riding which is vital if anyone on two wheels is to stand some chance of survival.
Just for the record,I can’t stand the Daily Mail.I’m afraid it’s the Sun.
Yes Mick Cycling Profiency is still around although it appears to more aimed at children.
http://www.roadsafetyni.gov.uk/index/education/teacherzone/teacherzone-cyclingproficiency.htm
I think most London Boroughs do provide free cycle training
It’s available in Lewisham borough too – I had a trainer follow me on my commute to work which was a great idea. Really practical advice and I could ask her opinion on the real life situations I face daily e.g. should I filter at this junction?
I don’t know about other boroughs, but where I live cycle training is available.
http://www.hackney.gov.uk/es-cycle-training-faq-547.htm
I would like to know just what is taught in these classes. Is it stuff that can/will be realistically followed when class is over and you have your certificate?
Good to know that the old c.p. is still going,is it free? I don’t know.What Sarina said sounds great and can only be a great help for cyclists to survive.I would gladly offer some of my time f.o.c. to help newcomers to motorcycling but due to red tape and bullshit I can’t do that unless I spend fortunes on govt. approved training to say that I’m competent.Don’t know if the same applies to cyclists but the way I see it there is no substitute for experience and anyone who is not genuinely interested and capable wouldn’t bother on a voluntary basis anyway .My Dad offered me some very sound advice when I started out,”TREAT ALL OTHER ROAD USERS LIKE COMPLETE IDIOTS BECAUSE THEY MOST PROBABLY ARE” I will continue to enjoy my motorcycling and occasional driving and do my best to treat all road users with respect and courtesy,including cyclists.I would like to think that all others will share this objective but they probably won’t so take care everyone and if you are ever in the Wembley area and see a blue bobber ridden at a leisurley pace by an old geezer chances are it’ll be me,so give us a wave and be safe in the knowledge that I won’t be the one to try and knock you off.
I recently started cycling from Chelsea to Soho in the morning for work and was amazed at the numbers of cyclists who just sailed through EVERY red light. Not just the odd cyclist or occasional red light jumping but simple wholesale ignoring of red lights by dozens of cyclists at a time. All the way along the Kings Road, Eaton Square and down the Mall. The culprits looked a mixed bag – over eager lycra boys, grey haired suits, chelsea girlies etc. They clearly do this every day and see no wrong in it at all. It strikes me as symptomatic of a ridiculous sense of self entitlement at the expense of others that so many people barrel around this city with – and certainly not not just on bicycles. It is absolutely anti-social, anti-society and gives cycling an absolutely terrible image. I agree with some of Mr. Heapy’s points if not the silly way he feels he has to put them across – calling cyclist’ leftie lentil munchers’ says a lot more about Mr. Heapy than it does about real world cyclists and looks like an almost touchingly naive belief in the word of Jeremy Clarkson. I didn’t fully realise that people actually went about expressing themselves in this way outside of the tabloids and Top Gear. If only the world were so simple…
The fine should be the same as for cars and should be enforced the same. I also retain a sense of idealism about cycling and believe that cyclists should be the last people to join the ranks of the other selfish idiots who daily undermine the efforts of the rest of us to maintain and to actually improve the civilisation of our society. So if you are one of those cyclists who simply sails through red lights all the way to work in the morning – just who do you think you are?
Hi Dave, sorry if I caused any offence to any body but if you read my entry dated 16th August you will see it all started out as a bit of fun.Actually I am in favour of very stiff penalties for all road traffic offenders including pedestrians.We all have a duty to contribute to road safety however we choose to travel.Believe me as a lifelong motrcyclist I have seen plenty of reckless and outrageous behaviour on the roads and unfortunately it is an almost daily occurence.I honestly wish there were more people like you and I who realise the responsibility that falls upon us when using the roads.All the best Mate and be safe.